'NAM and Salvation'

3.  David_Box of Qi

6th October, 2005

(Continued from page 309)

Subject: Salvation

You have apparently taken it upon your self to pass judgment on others and play God. I am confident that you have been self appointed in this endeavor.

You are not qualified to pass judgment because you do not know your true self and are unable to control your thoughts.

You see evil around you instead of beauty.

Your mind controls you.

Time for a wake up call.

Judge not. It is not your job.


7th October, 2005 - TCE replies:

Thank you for taking the time to write to us.

Since this teaching is already on our pages (see
home page) we are taking the time to point out why we know you are mistaken in your accusations:

A. Many New Testament passages dealing with judging (and other definitions of 'judging') are often misunderstood or misused by people who fail to recognize that we (Christians) are to judge! Jesus clearly said that you can know what kind of person is coming to you - even with signs and wonders - by their fruit (Matthew 7:15-23). So you can make a judgement of them and their teachings. But then people get confused because earlier, in the same chapter, He says: Do not judge lest you be judged Matthew 7:1).

But He clarifies it by stating: Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgement (John 7:24). This is not a contradiction, but clarification of how we judge. We are warned about the dangers of hypocritically judging - and Scripture clearly points out the dangers of wrong judging:

Therefore you are without excuse, every one of you who passes judgement, for in that you would judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things (Romans 2:1).

Therefore do not go on passing judgement before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things that are hidden in darkness and disclose the motives of men's hearts; and then each man's praise will come to him from God (1 Corinthians 4:5).

But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God (Romans 14:10).

For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present (1 Corinthians 5:3).

B.  What kind of judgment was the apostle Paul talking about? In the 1 Corinthian 5 passage Paul is simply saying the Word of God makes it clear that what this man was doing (by living with his father's wife) was immoral. It was not Paul judging, but the Word of God - God Himself judging!

This is the only way we can be certain that we "judge with righteous judgement" - when the judgment is declared in God's Word. We do not make judgments of another person's eternal destiny, but we can judge what their actions say about them and their doctrines because the Bible makes these things clear. The Greek word for "judge" is krino and the prefix "ana" gives us the word 'anakrino' - "to discern," so that we read:

But he who is spiritual judges [anakrino] all things, yet he himself is judged [anakrino]
by no man (1 Corinthians 2:15). We are commanded by God, in His Word, to
anakrino - to judge, or discern. It is not something that we can decide to ignore or turn a blind eye to if we wish and there are enough examples in Scripture that show the consequences of failing to judge when God commands it and He makes it clear that, if you do not discern, you lack wisdom, and those who practice wisdom cannot themselves be judged by any man!  We read:

I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not among you one wise man
who will be able to decide [diakrino] between his brethren? (1 Corinthians

The prefix "dia" in diakrino means to "render a decision" regarding whether something is right or wrong, or whether their behaviour is morally right or wrong, Scriptural or un-Scriptural? Is it of God, of the flesh, or of the devil? Again, the Holy Spirit instructed Paul to command us to make a decision (diakrino) - we are commanded to diakrino. To fail to judge is unacceptable as Paul made clear in 1 Corinthians 5:11-12:

I wrote to you not to associate with any so called brother if he should be an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler - not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging [krino] outsiders? Do you not judge [krino] those who are within the church?

C.  We judge those who are within the church, who are guilty of immorality and we are clearly instructed not to even associate with the person. People are confused by Chapter 6, forgetting that it is not talking about criminal law, but about civil law. We are not simply allowed to diakrino, we are commanded to diakrino; but it has more to do than just with people. This is not our judgement - we cannot krino anybody, but the things that God has said He will krino we have to anakrino. We have to discern when things are of God or of man. We are not the judges - the Word of God judges, but we
have to diakrino, that is, render a decision on whether it is morally right or wrong, by Biblical standards. We do not just have the right, but the responsibility to render a decision, for the command from God in heaven is to anakrino. So it is not our judgment, but what God says about these people. Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandments" (John 14:15; 15:10) If you fail to diakrino, you are failing to keep His commandments.

Failure to diakrino will allow all kinds of teachings to be brought into the church from people giving "words" from their own flesh or from Satan by allowing 'doctrines of demons' (1 Timothy 4:1-3) through any other source. People must be brought to account when they are damaging others (e.g. Catholic paedophile priests) - as we're sure you'll agree.

D. The judging that we are not called to do comes from the Greek word - krisis. Scripture informs us: For not even the father judges anyone, but He has given all judgement [krisis] to the Son (John 5:22). The ultimate determination of who goes to heaven or hell belongs to the Lord alone. We are not to krisis for this judging is God's alone. As we read:

But you have come. to the general assembly and church of the first born who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge [krites] of all, and to the spirits of righteous men made perfect (Hebrews 12:23).

E. God is the Judge of all. We are called to judge morals, behaviour and doctrine, but God is the ultimate Judge of us all. If we are going to stand up and confront other people inside and outside the church about these things we also need to ensure that we are not guilty of the same kind of behaviour because that is another kind of judging we are forbidden to do. When the Greek prefix hupo is added to krites, we have the word from which we derive the English equivalent: "hypocrites." This is what Jesus meant
when he said:

Do not judge lest you be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. And why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, "Let me take the speck out of your eye," and behold, the log is in your own eye? You hypocrite [hupokrites], first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye
(Matthew 7:1-5).

F.  We do not krites as God judges, nor are we to hupo-krites, but:

'the Word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge [kritikos] the thoughts and intentions of the heart' (Hebrews 4:12).

G. Clearly we are called to kritikos, to discern between the soulish and the spiritual, and the Word of God enables us to separate the bone from the marrow, the spiritual from the purely soulish. So the Bible makes clear that we never judge from our own opinions - but always seek to understand what the Word of God (found solely in the Bible) says about every matter of behaviour and doctrine. We are commanded to anakrino and seek to discern whether something is of God, or is it of the flesh, or of the devil? We are commanded to diakrino - to render a decision as to whether something is morally right or wrong. We do not krisis -- the Lord alone judges who goes
to heaven and who goes to hell, hence we read in 1 Corinthians 5:13:

'But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.'

H. We are sometimes appointed to krites - but we are to remember that the Lord is the Judge of all, and we are to judge righteously. We are to carefully avoid being guilty of hupo-krites - before we take a speck out of our brother's eye, we make sure we do not have the same speck in our own eye. We must always kritikos by relying on the Word of God to discern between the things of the soul and the things of the spirit.

Sincerely in Christ Jesus



8th October, 2005 - David_Box of Qi replies:

Thank you for your reply.

I speak of the final judgment we each will encounter when we cease to exist in the physical form we are currently inhabiting.

This is not the same judgment that you refer to in the scriptures you included.

The judgment you speak of, I believe, is one of personal or human based attitude, opinion and/or belief. Its root lies within the rational human mind, as opposed to judgment of the Spirit.
It also seems very fear based. Like the world is a big scary place full of Satan worshippers.
That said, I do see that I was also accusatory and judgmental of you (or your organization) in my statements. I am not actually sure if those are your own words, or those of a group of people.

I believe that those of us that are compassionate human beings on the path of righteousness are truly saints. I also believe that is what we all aspire to. Unfortunately, many of us (including myself at times) get righteous about some very trivial things.

Maintaining the compassion can be elusive at best in this imbalanced society that has been created and seems to be expanding globally.

There is compassion and empathy for the human condition missing within your accusations and even in the definition of what you call NAM's.

Your words are based in a rational and fear based judgment, not in Spirit, in my opinion.

It is my judgment/opinion that it is not your place to crucify (be it with words or on a cross) others that have beliefs that are different than yours or, rather, your interpretation of God's Word.
If you read the passages on your website carefully, you are indeed crucifying others for having beliefs that are different than your own.

That is exactly the same thing that led to the crusifiction of Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ was a man that spoke his truth, which was also the truth of God. And he was killed for it by people that feared and/or disagreed with what he was saying for a variety of reasons.

There are many interpretations of God's Word and they are each accurate (for the individual that holds them).

Unfortunately (to say the least), extreme radicals like the Al Quida seem to severely misinterpret The Word and act upon it in ways that harm others physically and mortally.

More moderate radicals try to force their opinions on others, thereby spreading poison and negativity throughout the land. I feel that this is what you are doing - spreading poison and negativity.

Jesus Christ was clearly blessed with a divine connection. We are each very capable of maintaining - and in fact do maintain - that connection. Our awareness of and the ease of being distracted from that connection are the stumbling blocks. It takes practice to realize mastery in maintaining that connection with all the busy ness of our lives.

Please don't condemn or crucify others because their beliefs are different than yours.
Your way is not the only way.

As hard as it may be to believe, all ways are ultimately God's Way.

Even Satan is connected to that Golden Light. Satan denies and despises that very light, but is very much eternally a part of it, and is also very much part of each of us.

Without the dark, there is no light.

See the light within yourself and all beings. Be aware of the darkness within, by all means, but do not spread the darkness.

Find the beauty within every thing. Be it a beautiful child, the last rose of the season or the perfect, pearly white teeth of the dog lying dead on the side of the road. For beauty lies within each of those.

There is beauty and you can choose to see it.

With God's Light Within,



10th November, 2005 - TCE replies:

Dear David

thank you for replying.

In line with our recent statement on e-mail communications, we will limit our reply to brief statements.

You write:  I speak of the final judgment we each will encounter when we cease to exist in the physical form we are currently inhabiting.

This is not the same judgment that you refer to in the scriptures you included.

TCE:  How carefully did you read our reply? We included in our answer:

'a.. What kind of judgment was the apostle Paul talking about? In the 1 Corinthian 5 passage Paul is simply saying the Word of God makes it clear that what this man was doing (by living with his father's wife) was immoral. It was not Paul judging, but the Word of God - God Himself judging! This is the only way we can be certain that we "judge with righteous judgement" - when the judgment is declared in God's Word. We do not make judgments of another person's eternal destiny, but we can judge what their actions say about them and their doctrines because the Bible makes these things clear.'

Since we have given good reason for our belief that the Word of God is found in the Bible alone - http://www.thechristianexpositor.org/page52.html - this statement shows that the judgement we referred to is from 'God Himself'! This also proves your next statement to be in error, for we have made it clear that the judgement we speak of is most definitely not 'one of personal or human based attitude, opinion and/or belief. Neither does 'Its root lie[s] within the rational human mind, as opposed to judgment of the Spirit.' If you want to ignore what we write and try and ride rough-shod over all Christian doctrine without even attempting to refute it then, obviously, we have nothing to discuss. You first have to disprove our reliance on the Bible as the Word of God. This we know you cannot do - but would appreciate you at least trying, if you sincerely seek to attempt to undo our statements regarding the NAM. Since it is the Spirit of God, who is not to be confused with the 'spirits' leading other religions, who inspired the Bible (2 Timothy 3:16) we can know for a fact that it is God leading our judgements.

Your next statement:  'It also seems very fear based. Like the world is a big scary place full of Satan worshippers' is far from the truth. On the contrary, the Bible teaches that Christians live in a freedom unknown to the world:

2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

Galatians 2:4 But because of false brethren secretly brought in, who slipped in to spy out our freedom which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage.

Galatians 5:1 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand fast therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.

Galatians 5:13 For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love be servants of one another.

1 Peter 2:16 Live as free men, yet without using your freedom as a pretext for evil; but live as servants of God.

But the world which rejects the One True God of the Bible is in the power of Satan, the 'evil one' (1 John 5:18-20):

18 We know that any one born of God does not sin, but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world is in the power of the evil one.20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, to know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

Saul of Tarsus, who was transformed into the apostle Paul by the Spirit, was told (Acts 26:16-18):

16 '... But rise and stand upon your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to appoint you to serve and bear witness to the things in which you have seen me and to those in which I will appear to you, 17 delivering you from the people and from the Gentiles-to whom I send you 18 to open their eyes, that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.'

While a good Father will warn His children of the father of all evil and the ways in which he deceives, He also tells us we have no need to fear Satan, for his fate is already predicted by God:

2 Corinthians 2:10-11: [warning of the dangers of failing to deal wisely in relationships] 10 Any one whom you forgive, I also forgive. What I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, has been for your sake in the presence of Christ, 11 to keep Satan from gaining the advantage over us; for we are not ignorant of his designs.

2 Corinthians 11:13-14: [warning of deceivers] For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

2 Thessalonians 2:9 The coming of the lawless one by the activity of Satan will be with all power and with pretended signs and wonders,

1 Timothy 1:20 [even naming deceivers] among them Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world-he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

Re 20:2 And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,

Re 20:7-10: And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be loosed from his prison [before he meets his final fate] .... 10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulphur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

So, no, the Bible clearly shows that orthodox Christians do not fear Satan, or those who ignorantly or by choice choose to remain in his power (all non-Christians!).

(Continued on page 311)

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