'Replies from Druids'

Rev. R. Chapman

28th September, 2004

Subject: Arch Bishop/Arch Heretic

I was sad to read your article about the arch bishop/ arch heretic. I am feel it lacks real understanding of the develoment of the Druidic traditions within the Welsh Eisteddfod.

1stly as an aside. St Patrick is quoted as saying, Jesus my Druid. You can look it up it exists. Therefore it can surley not be against God if one of his saints refers to Gods only Son as a Druid.

The part I found at best naive if not completely misunderstood is in reference to the Gorsedd Prayer. It's origins lie within Peter2 Chapter 1 5-9. It was adapted by Iolo as part of what was to be the formation of a society of culture all operating under the law of God. To suggest that it is secretley a Pagan prayer that any one can alter the words to suit their own belief is ludicrous, for even our Good Lords Prayer is subject to such
alterations, as are most hyms and prayer.

I feel that people who claim to follow Gods word would serve him better if they stopped judging and got on with it rather that stirring up resentment and agrivating the public with ill compiled articles. Gods message is one of peace and Love, a way of support and community.

May the Light of the Divine inspire the depths of your soul
May you walk one day in the light of truth.

Blessings

Rev. R Chapman

*****************************************************

12th January, 2006

Dear Rob

We have high-lighted each section as follows:

You write:  I was sad to read your article about the arch bishop/ arch heretic.  I am feel it lacks real understanding of the develoment of the Druidic traditions within the Welsh Eisteddfod.


1stly as an aside.  St Patrick is quoted as saying, Jesus my Druid.  You can look it up it exists.  Therefore it can surley not be against God if one of his saints refers to Gods only Son as a Druid.

TCE:   Our concern was not for the dubious details 'of the develoment [sic] of the Druidic traditions within the Welsh Eisteddfod' but:

  • to warn people of the level of deception in which Rowan Williams is involved;
  • to warn of the dubious claims that the ceremony was in any way 'Christian';
  • to examine the way in which such as Iolo Morganwg constructed the 'pseudo-Christian' ceremony and prayers;
Druids, past and present, simply make it up as they go along - why else would Iolo be accepted as any kind of authority?

Can you supply the exact reference for this claimed quote from 'St Patrick'?  Can you then clearly state the context in which 'St Patrick' said these words - if, indeed, he made this statement?   All of these facts are required before we can make a sound judgement on what he might have meant - if indeed he spoke these words!  Patrick was reputedly a born again believer who knew he was saved by grace alone and who spent much of his life calling on Celtic Druids to repent of their idolatry and occult practices.  Is it really likely that he called the Lord Jesus Christ 'my Druid' - unless he was using the term in some way as a 'translation' of 'Lord' or 'God'?  Obviously not!  Of course, even if he spoke the words, he is not an authority to orthodox Christians and, like all uninspired Christians, is capable of error and therefore no yardstick by which we can judge any spiritual matter.

Of course, there are those of a similar disposition to you who tell a very different story.  Investigate ''The Summerlands'- a 'Celtic Pagan Community dedicated to rediscovering, preserving, disseminating, and when necessary, recreating that which was lost to us ... the magick, history, customs, and religions of our ancestors. We are about worshipping and celebrating the old Gods and Goddesses in Ways both ancient and new ... in walking the path that Spirit leads us upon ... in rediscovering our connection with the Spirit of Our People.'
ref.
http://www.summerlands.com/crossroads/library/christis.htm

What is their view of your quote?: 

'These are the words of one of the most revered Saints in Celtic history.
They are the words of St. Columba of the clan Ui Neil who established the Celtic Church in Scotland ... Hear the words of the Filidh! Hear the words of the royal house of Ui Neil! Hear the words of Columba of Iona, Saint of God!

From the book of Druidry by Ross Nichols, (Former Ard Druid of the OBOD):

"It is clear that Columcille identified the highest he knew as the Druidic, identifying it with Christ whilst repudiating superstitions:
'There is no "streod" that can tell our fate nor bird upon the bough nor trunk of gnarled oak.. I adore not the voices of birds nor Chance, nor the love of son or wife -
my Druid is Christ, the Son of God.'

... The words used are 'mo drui, mac Dé' - '
my Druid, son of God' - which does not sound as though he were contrasting the two but identifying them."

It is my point that Christ was considered to be a Deity on a par with other Celtic Deities. The Druids considered Him to be their Druid.'

TCE: The same view is projected at http://www.carlmccolman.com/hob_druid.htm

Columba, the Abbot of Iona and the Celtic saint who first brought Christianity to Scotland, is reported to have said "Jesus is my Arch-Druid."

'The Celtic Apostolic Church' holds to the same view:
http://www.royalhouseofstewart.org.uk/church.htm   

So, clearly, they attribute these words to a man who, according to 'The Summerlands' reports, was a mystic, rather than a Christian. What does this Celtic Pagan website think of Columba and Patrick:

...
Columba was trained by a Druid and was not above using Druid magicks to further his interests. In fact, he used them in overcoming the magicians of the Pictish king, Brude. The early Christian saints engaged in many magical battles with Magicians and Druids. St. Patrick had many battles with the Druids of the Irish king .

So, with Patrick abhorring occultic practices and Columba a 'pseudo-Christian' who retained occult techniques, we know they would not be in agreement, but in opposition.  Really, similar to the position of genuine evangelical Christians in the Anglican Church today who foolishly tolerate paganism and occultism in their ranks!

TCE:   And what record of blasphemy do we find in 'The Summerlands' website?:

'It is my point that Christ was considered to be a Deity on a par with other Celtic Deities.
The Druids considered Him to be their Druid'.

TCE:   Who was it who considered him to be 'their Druid'?  The Druids!  This is not the view of a Christian 'saint' or leader of any kind!

This is a website that you should be perfectly at home with, for they use the same kind of deception as Iolo:

"The Basis of Christian Magick"
... What are we to make of this revelation? Let me first quote from the works of the greatest Magician of this age:

  • "Do what thou wilt is the whole of the law."
  • "Love is the law, love under will"
  • "Every man and woman is a star."

This is the basis of Magick as we currently know it. This Magick works and is alive. Let us see what the laws of Christian Magick are:
  • "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and spirit."
  • "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you."
  • "Love thy neighbor as thyself."
  • "Faith can move mountains."
Can anyone here see how these two different approaches are actually talking about the same things?'

TCE:   Only the deceived would agree with such a view.

You write:   The part I found at best naive if not completely misunderstood is in reference to the Gorsedd Prayer.  It's origins lie within Peter2 Chapter 1 5-9.  It was adapted by Iolo as part of what was to be the formation of a society of culture all operating under the law of God.  To suggest that it is secretley a Pagan prayer that any one can alter the words to suit their own belief is ludicrous, for even our Good Lords Prayer is subject to such alterations, as are most hyms and prayer.

TCE:   That someone may have used a portion of Scripture as a foundation for part of their belief system - as all the cults and false 'Christian' groups of the world do - does not ever make their alteration right.  There is a world of difference in an orthodox Christian modifying 'the Lord's Prayer', or other Scripture whilst retaining the essential meaning, and this remains consistent with the teaching the Lord Jesus Christ gave (Matthew 6:5-8) before he gave the pattern for prayer:

5 "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And
when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

You claim that Iolo based his prayer on
2 Peter 1:5-9:

5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; 7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. 8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

How does this compare with Iolo's invention:

'Grant O God, thy protection, and in protection, strength, and in strength, understanding, and in understanding, knowledge, and in knowledge, the knowledge of justice, and in the knowledge of justice, the love of it, and in that love, the love of all existences, and in the love of all existences, the love of God, God and all goodness.'

We stand by the words we wrote:

'It is pointless to try and claim that Iolo and his friends
'spoke prayers and sang hymns that were Christian in nature', especially when they are as vague and tenuous in their connection with Christianity as Iolo's Gorsedd Prayer ....'

You gloss over the important point that we were making: adding words to Scripture in order to introduce another belief system, and particularly to introduce 'other gods that you have not known' (
Deuteronomy 13:1-3) is blasphemy and was punishable by death in Old Testament times - and by excommunication in the New Testament era.  Strange that you do not even address the matter of Iolo's belief system and dishonesty?  But, then, the reason is obvious from your last comments.

You write:   I feel that people who claim to follow Gods word would serve him better if  they stopped judging and got on with it rather that stirring up resentment and agrivating the public with ill compiled articles.  Gods message is one of peace and Love, a way of support and community.

May the Light of the Divine inspire the depths of your soul
May you walk one day in the light of truth.

TCE:   From an orthodox, evangelical Christian's viewpoint, you are utterly in error concerning 'judging' - as explained at the bottom of our page 5.

But it is revealing that you can accuse us of producing 'ill compiled articles' in an e-mail littered with Scriptural, factual, grammatical and typo errors!

Unfortunately, your comments make it clear that your belief system is very far from the orthodox view - and you probably have no interest in even considering 'follow[ing] Gods word'.  In naively stating 'Gods message is one of peace and Love, a way of support and community' you ignore the whole matter of sinful man, God's wrath and judgement, and Christ's redemption of mankind.  There is no 'peace' for those who fail to take up Christ's offer of full redemption and thus reject the God of Love. No doubt you belong to a supporting community, as do the Mormons, Christadelphians, and many other false religions and cults.  But these are no signs that you are inspired by 'the Light of the Divine' or 'walk ... in the light of truth.'  In fact, your mail reveals very much the opposite.

We remain satisfied with the content of the article on which you base your complaint and reject your misguided and inaccurate comments.

In the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ


TCE

*****************************************************

Know the reality of eternity in heaven by believing on Jesus Christ as your Lord & Saviour!

Go to the following link to discover eternal life is
A Free Gift for You

Home Page   |   Expositor History   |   'Orthodox' Heretics   |   Other Religions   |   Cults  |   Occult   |   New Age Movement  |   Rome & Ecumenism

christian.expositor@ntlworld.com