Accusations refuted by 'Luther's Preface to the Small Catechism'!
Blanket rejection of facts and reasons given by orthodox Christians is not an answer!
You write: As long as we are here [in the world] we have to sin...No sin will separate us from the Lamb, even though we commit fornication and murder a thousand times a day... Pray boldly - you too are a mighty sinner." (Martin Luther, Letter to Melanchthon, August 1, 1521) So this places things in their proper context illustrating that the originator of Sola Fide meant you can commit sins however much and still enter Heaven, which is what you believe. Lord Jesus Christ came to die for sins, and not for us to commit them.
TCE: Again you try and put Luther's words into our mouths without attempting to refute the doctrines we have proven from Scripture alone! We have already explained some of Luther's problems and, since we have also proven our position elsewhere and do not rely on one word written by him anyway, we do not intend to waste valuable time repeating ourselves so as to be faithful to the Word of God which advises (2 Timothy 2:23): '... foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes'.
Amongst the many foolish claims you make against Luther is his supposed rejection of the 'Ten Commandments' but here, for example, is a quote from 'Luther's Preface to the Small Catechism':
Martin Luther, to all faithful and godly pastors and preachers; grace, mercy, and peace be yours in Jesus Christ, our Lord. The deplorable, miserable conditions which I recently observed when visiting the parishes have constrained and pressed me to put this catechism of Christian doctrine into this brief, plain, and simple form. How pitiable, so help me God, were the things I saw; the common man, especially in the villages, knows practically nothing of Christian doctrine, and many of the pastors are almost entirely incompetent and unable to teach. Yet all the people are supposed to be Christians, have been baptized, and receive the Holy Sacrament even though they do not know the Lord's Prayer, the Creed, or the Ten Commandments and live like poor animals of the barnyard and pigpen. What these people have mastered, however, is the fine art of tearing all Christian liberty to shreds.
Oh, you bishops! How will you ever answer to Christ for letting the people carry on so disgracefully and not attending to the duties of your office even for a moment? One can only hope judgment does not strike you! You command the Sacrament in one kind only, insist on the observance of your human ways, and yet are unconcerned whether the people know the Lord's Prayer, the Creed, the Ten Commandments, or indeed any of God's Word. Woe, woe to you forever!
Therefore dear brothers, for God's sake, I beg all of you who are pastors and preachers to devote yourselves sincerely to the duties of your office, that you feel compassion for the people entrusted to your care, and that you help us accordingly to inculcate this catechism in the people, especially the young. If you cannot do more, at least take the tables and charts for catechism instruction and drill the people in them word for word, in the following way:
First, the pastor should most carefully avoid teaching the Ten Commandments, the Lord's Prayer, the Creed, the sacraments, etc., according to various texts and differing forms. Let him adopt one version, stay with it, and from one year to the next keep using it unchanged. Young and inexperienced persons must be taught a single fixed form or they will easily become confused, and the result will be that all previous effort and labor will be lost. There should be no change, even though one may wish to improve them.
The honored fathers understood this well, and therefore they all consistently used one form of the Lord's Prayer, the Creed, and the Ten Commandments. We should do as they did by teaching these materials to the young and the common man without altering a single syllable and by never varying their wording when presenting or quoting them year after year.
So adopt whatever form you wish and then stick with it at all times. If, however, you happen to be preaching to some sophisticated, learned audience, then you certainly may demonstrate your skill with words by turning phrases as colorfully and masterfully as you can. But with young persons keep to a single, fixed, and permanent form and wording, and teach them first of all the Ten Commandments, the Creed, the Lord's Prayer, etc., according to the text, word for word, so that they can repeat it after you and commit it to memory.
But those who refuse to learn are to be told that they are denying Christ and do not belong to Him. They are not to be admitted to the Sacrament, accepted as sponsors at Baptism, or allowed to exercise Christian liberty in any way. They should instead be simply directed back to the pope and his functionaries, yes, even to Satan himself. Moreover, their parents and superiors should refuse them food and drink, telling them that the prince is of a mind to expel such rude persons from his realm, and so on.
Of course we cannot, and we should not try to, force the Christian faith on anyone. Yet we should steadily keep on urging people toward it and help them know what is considered right and wrong in the society in which they want to live and earn their living. A person who wants to live in a certain city and enjoy its privileges should know and observe its laws, no matter whether he believes in them or is at heart a rogue or scoundrel.
Second, after they have well memorized the text (of the catechism), then explain the meaning so that they understand what they are saying. Do so again with the help of these charts or some other brief uniform method of your choosing; adhere to it and do not change a single syllable, as said above concerning the text, taking your time with it. For it is not necessary to teach everything at once, but one thing after the other. After they understand well the meaning of the First Commandment, proceed to the Second, and so on, otherwise they will be too overwhelmed to the point of remembering nothing'.
Engelbrecht, E. A. (2009). The Lutheran Study Bible (pp. xxxiii-xxxiv). St. Louis, MO: Concordia Publishing House.
Coupled with this quote:
Whoever believes and holds to Christ's Word, heaven stands open to him, hell is shut, the devil is imprisoned, sins are forgiven, and he is a child of eternal life. That is what this book teaches you - the Holy Scripture - and no other book on earth. (Martin Luther - WA 48:155 - ibid.)
These quotes reveal something of his zeal and care for the Word of God. We have already detailed the problems of Luther which he revealed widely due to his extensive writing but, even where he corrected his errors in later works, we know that you have no intention to forgive him for the other sins. Doubtlessly we could easily defend the major part of Luther's life and that is not our raison d'être - but your wild and inaccurate accusations require at least some correction. What a great pity you do not ever admit the many vile sins of your popes and clergy in general!
Luther threw out seven entire books of the Bible?
You write: Everything you have mentioned is false and inaccurate.
TCE: If this were really true you would have supplied a careful critique of facts proving this to be true and the world could see this in print. But the clear truth is that you have been unable to disprove a single thing that we have written.
You write: When Protestant Revolters threw several books out of the Bible 1500+ years later, they then turned around and called them "apocrypha" because they refuted their Protestant doctrines. It is only your Protestant "scriptures" that are apocryphal. The Protestant canon that you have today is a result of the dominant version that was circulated by politically positioned compatriots during the Revolt, despite the fact that the revolter leaders removed and rejected more books in the Protestant canon than what appears in it today.The Bible never made itself. You committed an anachronism, in attempting to escape the fact that the Protestant revolters rejected the several books based on doctrines they rejected. You must have never read their writings.
TCE: We have amply refuted these foolish claims on this page under the heading:
Hurling wild, unproven accusations without a single example to support your ludicrous claims is not refutation!
Ignoring our refutations of the claims made for Padre Pio is not refutation any more than your constant ad hominem attacks!
You write: In addition, the books they retained do not match the wording of the Bible because they changed the wording. That's why many self styled "Bible" versions have different words and phrases and meanings.Open lesbians, witches, occultists, feminists, and homosexuals sit on the translation committees and state their vision and reasons for changing the already present wording in the Protestant made "scriptures."And this continues on and on in an endless cycle. So Protestants have in effect lesbian feminist homosexual occultist wiccan made/produced "bibles."And these "bibles" are in turn further revised by leftist pressure groups. That is why all Protestant universities, so called "seminaries", schools and even some churches, receive massive funds from Communist and Socialist groups.
TCE: We have already clearly stated the truth about Bible translators and their translations. All you have done is throw out wild, unproven accusations and left yourself open to charges of homophobia, sexism, anti-Semitism etc.. You have not given a single example to support your ludicrous claims. Not a good track record for one claiming to be a Christian!
You write: The Bible never made itself. What assurance do you have that the books you have are inspired? It is because of Rome. You depend on Rome's authority in accepting and believing that those particular books which you have in the NEW TESTAMENT are inspired. St. Luke and St. Mark were not Apostles, but you accept there writings as part of the 4 Gospels based on Romes [sic] decision. Neither was St. Paul an Apostle but you accept what he wrote as inspired. What basis do you have for this - Rome's decision.
Additionally, not all Apostles wrote; and the writings of the Early Church Fathers were accepted as inspired scripture and even read out during public worship. The desperate Protestant tries to invent stories on how the Bible came to be without making reference to the Catholic Church which is ultimately impossible.
Your "supporting historical sources" are Protestant myth and popular bigoted Protestant fictions of the day. You cannot address anything and avoid doing so because you know you are so thoroughly refuted. You have no basis absolutely for accepting the particular books you have as inspired scripture, except on the authority and trust you have in the Catholic Church.The favorite Protestant meaningless tactic of Invoking "God protected and inspired the scriptures" means absolutely nothing; your opponent/s can invoke the same argument. You are not going by the data and the historical fact.Catholics wrote the Bible and decided the canon of the Old and New Testaments. Saying that "God" protected the scriptures doesn't demonstrate that "He" physically put them together. There had to be an outside source doing this endowed with Infallibility and this was the Church. To escape this fact is absurdist, does violence to the facts of history, reason, common sense, and reality, and a holder of your position would have to believe that the texts magically came and were assembled together magnetically through occult means. Or if not, that the canon itself is fallible; thus leaving you without the complete Revelation, and thus no Revelation at all, and therefore refuting in one fell swoop your notion and premise that "God" preserved the scriptures. You either have the full Revelation or you don't at all. Because [true] Revelation is what is complete. Additionally, no one from heaven ever promised that the translations of the Bible would be preserved from error - where do you get that? In the Translator's message to the Readers in the preface to the 1611 KJV they said themselves that their translation was not perfect and preserved from error. If you point back to your version of the "Bible" in response by saying that "God protected His word", then that is a fallacy of circular reasoning; because the issue at hand is the question of who put/placed those particular and specific books in the Bible and whether that was an Infallible decision; and also when exactly did this happen? In your unreason you are unable to answer this question honestly and only with the bare facts in mind, and thus according to your erroneous line of thinking, would have to admit that you don't even know where your scriptures come from and originated and also when they were collected and put together, and by whom. Protestants selectively translate and their "Bibles" are filled and flowing with contradicting errors. In the 7 century the Moslems claimed that Christianity was "corrupt" and lost and changed the scriptures and that they received the true revelation The Protestants claim to have "recovered" the word of God during the 16 century. The Mormons claim to have "recovered" the word of God in the 19th century. Noting [sic] in Protestantism is unique, and specifically nothing in your version and brand of Protestantism is unique. You and other false religions and sects resort to invoking your false gods as a starting point in an attempt to set your false religion and false scriptures as authentic - in the face of the irrefutable and undeniable historical facts which through [sic] your false scriptures and false god out the window. The translators of your "scriptures"were never promised they would not error while translating. And to go back to your Protestant "scriptures" for "evidence" that your Protesting "scriptures" are authentic, would be circular reasoning. Because the scriptures did no [sic] make themselves nor put themselves together. [sic] you have to go to an external outside source to prove the validity of your scriptures; this is called the Archimedean reference point. And since you reject the Church and you know the Church gave you your scriptures [though you corrupted what was given you] you resort to forming mythic stories, and also to smoke and mirror illusions and puff and feathers, in order to cover up the inauthentic nature of your corrupt scriptures. You have to put up and resort to elaborate puff and feather fable and fairytale in an attempted weak "justification" for not only corrupting the scriptures, but for why you reject several inspired texts.
TCE: We have carefully - and totally - refuted all of these foolish claims at the references already given, so your waffle and bluster is pointless!
You write: I must note that your citation and use of Scripture is illegitimate, simply irrelevant, and out of context.
TCE: If this were true you might be able to offer at least one example - but you clearly have nothing but more of the same foolish bluster.
Stating that our facts are 'simply ridiculous' and ignoring our clearly stated reply is not refutation!
You write: What you say of Padre Pio's bilocations is just prejudice. You say it was occultic powers that aided him. According to that logic, all the miracles he performed and thus all the miracles of Jesus Christ, His Apostles [sic], and Christians after them ,were all occultic powers, but not the abundant Fruits of the Holy Ghost and his Tremendous Outpourings upon His most obedient and faithful children. Padre Pio listened to confessions 18+ hours a day just like the Cure' of Ars and of course they both bilocated. He was a man mainly of prayer, and prayed during each and every moment. He was also famous on the whole planet for his astounding miracles in the eyes of men. Hundreds of thousands crowded the streets when he occasionally left his monastery and was transferred through a vehicle to the hospitals he was building and supervising to give speeches.
TCE: Surely you can see that you are applying false logic? To make such a claim is to accept that the limited efforts of Pharaoh's magicians could be equal to that of God's servants, Moses and Aaron:
Exodus 7:11ff. - Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments.
Exodus 7:22 - And the magicians of Egypt did so with their enchantments: and Pharaoh's heart was hardened, neither did he hearken unto them; as the LORD had said.
Exodus 8:7 - And the magicians did so with their enchantments, and brought up frogs upon the land of Egypt.
Exodus 8:18 - And the magicians did so with their enchantments to bring forth lice, but they could not: so there were lice upon man, and upon beast.
Even the magicians eventually recognised that they could not compete with the real power of Almighty God and they conceded:
Exodus 8:19 - Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God: and Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.
Exodus 9:11 - And the magicians could not stand before Moses because of the boils; for the boil was upon the magicians, and upon all the Egyptians.
Clearly, occult powers can sometimes appear to be as powerful and genuine as God's power - but they can only mimic up to a point! You do not even recognise that God described how He would work in Egypt (Exodus 7:3: 'And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt) and how these same spiritual battles would occur in the 'End Times' - which we are in now - for He warned:
Matthew 24:24 - For there shall arise false Christ's, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. (cf. Mr 13:22);
2 Thessalonians 2:9 - Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders
We have amply refuted the supposed miracles of 'Padre Pio' and it is a shame that you believe 'He was ... famous on the whole planet' when many have never heard of him; you also believe he 'was transferred through a vehicle to the hospitals he was building and supervising' when he could supposedly transport himself there miraculously!?
Sadly, the demonic blindness you labour under has persuaded you that the "stigmatist" who treated YOU was our experience!?
You write: You also tried to bring up how I mentioned Martin Luther admittedly had interaction with the Devil, by attempting to connect this to the Saints. That is simply ridiculous. Martin Luther was a Devil Possessed heretic and satanic Rosicrucian. His personal seal on all his writings was the Rosicrucian symbol. I also cited his quotes, well documented and readily admitted by his Protestant defenders. He also accused the Lord of adultery and fornication. He taught man had no free will and was incapable of good. And you evade and dodge the issue. So the supposed allegation that his Table Talk is not found in the online database of his works is ludicrous. I cited the exact source material and it is readily accepted by his defenders and indeed openly admitted.
TCE: You accuse us falsely and have simply ignored even experts from Papal Rome who warn against using Luther's 'Table Talk' in the way you attempt. You write 'the supposed allegation that his Table Talk is not found in the online database of his works is ludicrous' when we clearly never made such a claim? While Luther's errors are legendary they pale into insignificance compared with the heresies and filthy, bloodthirsty acts of the popes of Rome. We have never wasted too much time in defending Luther for the reasons already stated and because that should be the prerogative of the church that foolishly bears his name! You would have thought that they at least recognised Paul's argument (1 Corinthians 1:12-13):
'Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?'
So why do they claim to be 'Lutherans' - 'of Luther'? It is a 'no-brainer' and not a position we could ever defend! But, if he held to the Rosicrucian error, he was still no more in error than your popes - and considerably more enlightened than they could ever be! Prove this to be untrue. As we have already stated - justification by faith alone by grace alone is a Biblical truth which Papal Rome cannot disprove. Luther and his church discovered it many years after the apostles declared it and many years after the early ekklesiae had inherited and followed the same truth - a truth which history shows Papal Rome had lost sight of and then killed millions for daring to believe it while rejecting the false Jesus and the false gospel of the popes (2 Corinthians 11:4; Galatians 1:6-9).
Claims made without a shred of supporting evidence proves your desperation!
You write: When you make mention of the so called "stigmatist" woman that you know and that she supposedly healed you and hides her hands behind her back because she is modest about her "stigmata", one must call these assertions ludicrous. She is a heretic and cannot perform the miracles that all stigmatists performed; bilocations, mystical and physical ruptures and flights, traveling tremendous distances supernaturally over continents, resurrections, levitations, flying swiftly than birds and arrows etc. She is a worker of false signs and wonders and her stigmata is either fake or from the Devil himself, to deceiveuser [sic] heretics like you and all she can do are her false "healings." Wow big deal.
TCE: When we first read your ranting nonsense it was clear that facts mean little to you for your mind is already made up. But, worse than that, you are demonically deceived and have now attacked your own 'healer'!
We always concentrate on examining what the Word of God really teaches as opposed to the heresies of Papal Rome because Scripture informs us (Isaiah 55:11):
'So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it'.
Your responses reveal that you fulfil the role of the man of Proverbs 10:13:
'In the lips of him that hath understanding wisdom is found: but a rod is for the back of him that is void of understanding'.
While our replies will be a rod for your back we are confident that His Word will reach the hearts of some who read these exchanges.
That you somehow managed to read our reply to you and determine that a 'so called "stigmatist" woman ... supposedly healed you and hides her hands behind her back because she is modest about her "stigmata" ' reveals the incredible demonic blindness you labour under. We do not personally know such a person and would never approach them for healing because, as we have clearly explained, the claims and methods of all such practitioners are occultic - and your own words reveal that you accept such demonic 'signs and wonders' ('...the miracles that all stigmatists performed; bilocations, mystical and physical ruptures and flights, traveling tremendous distances supernaturally over continents, resurrections, levitations, flying swiftly than birds and arrows etc....) as genuine when performed by the 'saints' of Papal Rome!
You can read your initial mail above in which you told us:
'I know her personally, as she helped me get through months of agonizing suffering when I had my disabling seizure 5 years ago. ... I would recommend that you check out Bernadette's website, littlehouseofprayer.net. You may have to search Google to find it, as I cannot always bring it up on Yahoo. You will notice that in her picture, Bernadette is holding her hands behind her back, as she is very modest about her stigmata.'
You write: 'Even Transcendental Meditators, Buddhist monks, channelers, mediums, and some psychics can "heal." She is an occultist and Devil worshiper'.
TCE: So, what are we conclude? Either you have a truly appalling memory and cannot remember your own personal experiences, or you made it up and are now repeating it in a completely different manner because you suffer the same failing of all liars - that of also possessing an appalling memory - or you are possessed - which would explain your seizures! This would also make you a disciple of Satan (John 8:44):
'Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.'
Proverbs 14:5: 'A faithful witness will not lie: but a false witness will utter lies'.
1 Timothy 4:2: 'Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron'.
It was already apparent from your previous replies that the Word of God has exposed you in both capacities described here. Therefore we have no need to waste too much time in dialoguing with you because you have proven yourself incapable of anything other than wild, unreasoning rants and tedious, illogical monologue replete with crass ad hominem attacks which make it impossible for you to even attempt a rebuttal of a single point we have made.
A sad descent into blatant demonic Nazism!
You write: 'Only the Church can bring a whole irrefutable package of miracles examined under the most rigid scrutiny that the expert examiners have gained the name "Devil's Advocate" because their job is to try to disprove the wonders with all their might in an attempt to find a scientific explanation of the miracles. To add icing to the cake, only the unbelievers and their expert top scientists that they can bring are made to work on the cases, and when it is determined there is absolutely no natural or scientific explanation of the miracles, the "Devil's Advocate's" job is finished; because they admit that they have no explanation for these things'.
TCE: If Papal Rome ever allowed proper scientific examination of her supposed 'miracle workers' we would have even more evidence against her fraudulent membership. Perhaps you would like to supply the world with the names and details of the occasions when such 'expert examiners' were supposedly allowed to scrutiny any 'irrefutable package of miracles'?
Claiming that 'Protestants abuse more kids than Papal Rome' is thoroughly refuted by the following facts!
You write: You must be one of those gas chamber cultists and believers. You even go so far as to embrace the Christ-Rejecters and Christ-Killers themselves. Perhaps you have never read the Leuchter Report http://www.solargeneral.com/library/leuchter-report.pdf done by the top gass [sic] chamber expert in the world - Fred Leuchter, proving that the whole "jewish" holocaust was a lie, no gass [sic] chambers ever existed in the concentration camps, and that the crematoriums could not have had the capacity to burn even 1 million bodies - it would have taken 65 years at least. There are many videos of him online, this is a 10 minute one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diwTI0uyXXk of course, after exposing the "jewish" holocaust fraud, he has been persecuted and his career ruined. His compatriot Ernst Zundel has been declared a threat to the national security in Canada, and was taken to Germany to serve prison time for exposing the "jewish" holocaust myth. The Jews control not only the media but also every other facet of our lives. You are a worshiper of the God-insulting jews.
The "Jewish holocaust" is fake - never happened. Almost all the people that died in the concentration camps were professing Catholics. Just over 200,000 people died in these camps according to German, Red Cross, and Russian figures. They died because the "allies" bombed the water supply and food supply. They got sick from the water and received communicable diseases. Hitler only went after the Catholics, not Jews. He was Jewish himself, a Rothschild.
http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/the_holocaust.php the only victims in history are Catholics and always will be. The Holocaust was the OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST's Sacrifice on the Cross - HE was the Divine offering to the FIRST PERSON OF THE MOST HOLY AND BLESSED TRINITY - THE FATHER.
The Jew Stalin killed 25 million Russians, the Jew Hitler killed mainly Catholics and some goy. The Jews Lenin, Leon Trostsky (Lev Bronstein), Yakov Sverdlow (Solomon), Grigori Zinovier (Radomsylsky), Karl Marx (Moses Levi Mordechai) , Karl Radek (Sobelsohn), Maxim Litvinov (Wallach), Lev Kamener (Rosenfeld) and Morsei Vritsky etc killed upwards of 68+ million Russians and the Jews were the leading Communists. So keep your Jewish racist Supremacist propaganda to yourself. You will burn forever in eternity - almost certainly; but you can avoid this by embracing and living the True and only Faith.
TCE: If anyone reading your rant had not already realised the depths of your Satanic delusion they will certainly recognise it now! As always, you do not supply a single genuine historical detail to support your evil rant! Since when have we claimed to support the idiotic idea of 'Jewish racist Supremacist propaganda'? Have you never read of the Russian Communists persecution of Jews?!
Courts worldwide reveal Papal Rome to be the abuser of men, women, and children - as history has long revealed!
You write: even the biased Catholic-bashing Fox News reports and is complaining about why it is not making front page news how Protestants abuse more kids than the Post Conciliar Protestant Sect, that some wrongly believe is the Catholic Church.
TCE: Calling Papal Rome 'the Post Conciliar Protestant Sect' cannot hide the truth about your cult which you have tried to modify in your mind while it carries on in the same vile manner that has been virtually its entire history.
Your report from 'Fox News' was part of a regular blog hosted by Father Jonathan Morris on FOXNews.com and we therefore have no good reason to expect any sort of reasoned and un-biased account - and we were therefore unsurprised to read online:
'The mainstream media has all but ignored the recent Associated Press report that the three major insurance companies for Protestant Churches in America say they typically receive 260 reports each year of minors being sexually abused by Protestant clergy, staff, or other church-related relationships.
In light of the sex abuse scandal that rocked the Catholic Church beginning five years ago, religious and victims' rights organizations have been seeking this type of data for years. It has been hard to come by since Protestant Churches are more de-centralized than the Catholic Church.
Responding to heavy media scrutiny, the Catholic Church has reported that since 1950, 13,000 "credible accusations" have been brought against Catholic clerics (about 228 per year.) The fact that this number includes all credible accusations, not just those that have involved insurance companies, and still is less than the number of cases in Protestant churches reported by just three insurance companies, should be making front page of The New York Times and the network evening news. It's not.
The report is even more telling if we consider the plethora of independent or "store front" Protestant churches that don't have insurance and whose numbers, therefore, certainly are not taken into account in this study.
This bad news for Protestant Churches is sad news for all of us. I would prefer the problem be limited to any one church -- even if that church were my own -- because it would mean more kids would be safe. But as I have said repeatedly over the last few years, the problem of sexual abuse of minors is not an issue of religious affiliation because there is nothing religious about abusing children. The phenomenon of sexual abuse of minors in church settings is the story of sick human beings taking advantage of their position of moral authority to prey on the weak and vulnerable. If Catholic clergy were to be faithful to their church's teaching, there would be no abuse in the Catholic Church. The same goes for Protestant clergy. The problem, then, is not one of corrupt doctrine, but of individuals being unfaithful to the most basic precepts of their own religious belief.
Let's be clear: the report of abuse in Protestant Churches in no way clears guilty members of the Catholic Church -- neither the predators nor those who moved them from church to church and put other young people in danger. But the report does give us better perspective. The problem of sexual abuse has no denominational boundaries.
But why, then, is there so much abuse in church settings in general? Because contemporary society is sick and it is producing so many sick people that some of these disjointed souls even end up in churches. It should also be noted that we are more likely to hear about the church-related cases because they tell a more salacious story -- what should be white is black, and so on. The Catholic Church is the best story because the blame (and the money trail) can go all the way to Rome.
I would like to be able to say that the sexual abuse of minors is limited to church settings because, if that were the case, once again, more kids would be safe. But it's not. Sexual predators are in our schools, hospitals, and foster families. It hurts to say it, but because our society is so sick, sexual predators are everywhere.
But there's hope. Society does not spin out of control on its own. It has fallen with us and it can rise with us. Society is cultivated and formed by human beings who are capable of changing behavior patterns and doing the right thing. The most important thing we can do to heal societal wounds is to teach our children, day in and day out, by words and example, what it means to love and be loved. Disjointed and sick people, the ones who abuse children, don't fall from the sky. They are born into families, into towns, and communities. It is to the degree that more moms and dads, teachers, pastors, and neighbors are able to pass on the beauty of selfless love that society will start to get better -- and our churches too.'
Apart from high-lighting the falsehoods in this report - particularly the moronic claim that 'The problem, then, is not one of corrupt doctrine, but of individuals being unfaithful to the most basic precepts of their own religious belief' - the writer then goes on to claim that 'Society is cultivated and formed by human beings who are capable of changing behavior patterns and doing the right thing. The most important thing we can do to heal societal wounds is to teach our children, day in and day out, by words and example, what it means to love and be loved '. Thus the writer reveals their ignorance of the 'new birth' (John 3v3) that transforms genuine Christians to oppose sinful desires and seek perfection through the leading of the Holy Spirit (John 14v26; 16v7-13) through the foolish claim that 'human beings ... are capable of changing behavior patterns and doing the right thing'! To then read that 'I would prefer the problem be limited to any one church -- even if that church were my own -- because it would mean more kids would be safe' reveals the depth of ignorance and deception of this writer who, doubtlessly, believes that attacking 'Protestants' - who failed to breakaway entirely from the Cult of Papal Rome - will make 'that church [which is his] own' look less evil!
Even searching the blog archive of 'Father Morris' (as recently as Oct 12, 2016) reveals the title:
'Father Morris: Clinton camp mocking Catholics is 'bigotry' - Roman Catholic priest shocked by 'anti-American talk' in leaked emails'.
A pity you did not even bother to examine reports on the article that Morris referred to, such as:
We will just highlight in blue some rather revealing aspects of the report which has the following title:
Report: Protestant Church Insurers Handle 260 Sex Abuse Cases a Year
By Rose French | June 18, 2007
The three companies that insure the majority of Protestant churches in America say they typically receive upward of 260 reports each year of young people under 18 being sexually abused by clergy, church staff, volunteers or congregation members.
The figures released to The Associated Press offer a glimpse into what has long been an extremely difficult phenomenon to pin down -- the frequency of sex abuse in Protestant congregations.
Religious groups and victims' supporters have been keenly interested in the figure ever since the Roman Catholic sex abuse crisis hit five years ago. The church has revealed that there have been 13,000 credible accusations against Catholic clerics since 1950.
Protestant numbers have been harder to come by and are sketchier because the denominations are less centralized than the Catholic church; indeed, many congregations are independent, which makes reporting even more difficult.
Some of the only numbers come from three insurance companies -- Church Mutual Insurance Co., GuideOne Insurance Co. and Brotherhood Mutual Insurance Co.
Together, they insure 165,495 churches and worship centers for liability against child sex abuse and other sexual misconduct, mostly Protestant congregations but a few other faiths as well. They also insure more than 5,500 religious schools, camps and other organizations.
The companies represent a large chunk of all U.S. Protestant churches. There are about 224,000 in the U.S., according to the Association of Statisticians of American Religious Bodies, although that number excludes most historically black denominations and some other groups, which account for several thousand congregations.
Church Mutual, GuideOne and Brotherhood Mutual each provided statistics on sex abuse claims to The Associated Press, although they did not produce supporting documentation or a way to determine whether the reports were credible.
The largest company, Church Mutual, reported an average of about 100 sex abuse cases a year involving minors over the past decade. GuideOne, which has about half the clients of Church Mutual, said it has received an average of 160 reports of sex abuse against minors every year for the past two decades.
Brotherhood Mutual said it has received an average of 73 reports of child sex abuse and other sexual misconduct every year for the past 15 years. However, Brotherhood does not specify which victims are younger than 18 so it is impossible to accurately add that to the total cases.
Abuse reports do not always mean the accused was guilty, and they do not necessarily result in financial awards or settlements, the companies said. The reports include accusations against clergy, church staff and volunteers.
Even with hundreds of cases a year "that's a very small number. That probably doesn't even constitute half," said Gary Schoener, director of the Walk-In Counseling Centre in Minneapolis, a consultant on hundreds of Protestant and Catholic clergy misconduct cases. "Sex abuse in any domain, including the church, is reported seldom. We know a small amount actually come forward."
Tom Farr, general counsel and senior vice president of claims for GuideOne, based in West Des Moines, Iowa, said most abuse cases are resolved privately in court-ordered mediation. Awards can range from millions of dollars down to paying for counseling for victims, he said.
One of the largest settlements to date in Protestant churches involved the case of former Lutheran minister Gerald Patrick Thomas Jr. in Texas, where a jury several years ago awarded the minister's victims nearly $37 million (euro28 million). Separate earlier settlements involving Thomas cost an additional $32 million.
When insurance companies first started getting reports of abuse from churches nearly two decades ago, the cases usually involved abuse that happened many years earlier. But over the past several years, the alleged abuse is more recent, which could reflect a greater awareness about reporting abuse, insurance companies said.
Insurance officials said the number of sex abuse cases has remained steady over the past two decades, but they also said churches are working harder to prevent child sex abuse by conducting background checks, installing windows in nurseries and play areas and requiring at least two adults in a room with a child.
A victims' advocacy group has said the Southern Baptists, the nation's largest Protestant denomination, could do more to prevent abuse by creating a list of accused clergy the public and churches could access.
"These are things people are entitled to know," said Christa Brown, a member of the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, who says she was sexually abused as a child by a Southern Baptist minister. "The only way to prevent this crime is to break the code of silence and to have absolute transparency when allegations are raised."
At the Southern Baptist Convention's annual meeting in San Antonio this week, the Rev. Wade Burleson proposed a feasibility study into developing a national database of Southern Baptist ministers who have been "credibly accused of, personally confessed to, or legally been convicted of sexual harassment or abuse."
A convention committee referred Burleson's motion to the SBC executive committee, which will report back with findings and a recommendation at next year's meeting in Indianapolis.
Southern Baptist President Frank Page said leaders are considering several options to help churches protect children against abuse.
"We believe that the Scripture teaches that the church should be an autonomous, independent organization," Page said. "We encourage churches to hold accountable at the local level those who may have misused the trust of precious children and youth."
Several years ago, the Baptist General Convention of Texas, which represents moderates who have increasingly distanced themselves from the conservative-led Southern Baptists, started a list of accused clergy for churches, but not the public. Under pressure from victim advocates, the Texas group just released the names of some convicted sex offenders who may have been ministers in local congregations.
Joe Trull, editor of Christian Ethics Today and retired ethics professor at New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary, helped the Texas convention create its registry and says there are now about 11 cases involving clergy abuse with minors.
But he believes these are just the "tip of the iceberg" because churches don't have to report abuse cases to the registry and aren't likely to.
"The problem we're having is that churches just weren't sending the names," Trull said. "In the normal scenario, they just try to keep it secret. We're going to have to be more proactive and let them know if they don't come forward, they're helping to perpetuate this problem."
On the Net:
Southern Baptist Convention: http://www.sbc.net/
Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests:
Voice to Stop Baptist Predators:
Even these meetings reveal the extent of the End Times Apostasy in 'Protestant' churches!
TCE: Note that the report does not say what 'Father Jonathan' would desire, for the figures for 'Protestant churches' are nowhere near as appalling as those proven from court cases, mainly in the USA but also worldwide, that reveal Papal Rome to be the virulent abuser of men, women, and children, that history has long revealed.
Those who try to manipulate figures to strongly imply that all Christian churches are equally evil should also carefully check the history of the group first. While the 'Southern Baptists' website:
declares that 'A New Testament church of the Lord Jesus Christ is an autonomous local congregation of baptized believers ... Its scriptural officers are pastors and deacons...' it is noticeable that not all 'Baptist Churches' came from the Anabaptist tradition so persecuted by Papal Rome (and then the 'Protestant Reformers'!) and the history of 'Southern Baptists' would seem to indicate strongly that they came from 'Reformers' who escaped to America because of such persecution.
The New Baptist Covenant Celebration which convened January 30 to February 1, 2008, in Atlanta, Georgia, was sponsored by more than 30 Baptist groups and institutions, including the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship; American Baptist Churches USA; Baptist General Conventions of Texas, Missouri, and Virginia; Baptist World Alliance; Baptist Union of Western Canada; Baptist Convention of Ontario and Quebec; Canadian Baptist Ministries; Convention of Atlantic Baptist Churches; Fellowship of Baptist Educators; General Association of General Baptists; Mainstream Baptist Network; National Baptist Convention of America; National Baptist Convention USA; National Missionary Baptist Conference USA and Canada; North American Baptist Fellowship; Progressive Baptist National Convention; Texas Baptists Committed; Virginia Baptists Committed; Baylor University; and Mercer University.
This New Baptist Covenant turned out to be an agreement to ignore the doctrine of God's Word while uniting around an ill-defined "gospel" which is most unlike the New Covenant of Jesus Christ, whereby God puts His laws into men's hearts so that they have a deep love for His truth (Hebrews 10:16; Ezekiel 36:27),
Former President of the USA, Jimmy Carter, was the main personality behind the New Baptist Covenant and explained that he had been trying to bring unity among Baptists for many years and declared that it was a fulfilment of his dream to unite Baptists and that "Unity in Christ" was the major focus and:
"There will be no criticism of others - let me say again - no criticism of others or exclusion of any Christians who would seek to join this cause."
The Southern Baptist Convention did not participate in this New Baptist Covenant, but Jimmy Carter said that he attempted to get them on board and still hoped that they would join hands at some point, but also declared that 'it is impossible to agree on doctrines and issues and we should unite rather on the "gospel"'. But, in typical mealy-mouthed liberalism, the gospel was never defined and Carter said:
"[There is] nothing wrong in believing in fundamentals, the most important of which is the gospel message, we are saved by the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ. Under this simple but profound banner we Christians must stand united."
This 'simple...banner' is doctrinally vague enough to unite every sort of "Christian," including Roman Catholics, Protestants, the Mormon Cult and every other kind of fake Christian. Nothing was said at this gathering about the infallible Scriptures, without which we have no certain gospel, the virgin birth, the substitutionary blood atonement, the bodily resurrection, repentance as a necessity for salvation, or the definition of 'grace' or 'faith'. Heretic Carter acknowledged that there are many things that divide Baptists, mentioning the issues of legalized abortion, homosexuality, women church leaders, and creationism vs. evolution, and he said those issues are like "eating meat offered to idols". By this we presume he meant they are peripheral, non-essential, and of no great consequence.
An example of Papal Rome's involvement with the religions of the world in the Great Apostasy!
Everything about the leaders and participating organizations at this 'New Baptist Covenant' stank of the same liberal, 'anything goes' as long as we have 'unity'. Another speaker, Pastor Gerald Durley of Providence Missionary Baptist Church in Atlanta, said that Baptists need to get over their desire to convert everyone to faith in Christ and appreciate the beauty of religions like Islam! He said that John 14:6 doesn't necessarily mean that Jesus is the only way to salvation and compared the various religions to 'a vegetable soup that is flavorful because of its diversity' ("Confusion Concerning Kindness", Baptist Press, Feb. 4, 2008).
During his presidency, Carter was rebuked for his liberalism by Adrian Rogers, then-president of the Southern Baptist Convention, who told him: "Mr. President, I hope you will give up your secular humanism and return to Christianity" (Religious News Service report, cited from Sword of the Lord, July 16, 1993). Former President Bill Clinton, who spoke on the final night of the 'New Baptist Covenant Celebration', even wrote in his autobiography, 'My Life', of a visit to Haiti where he witnessed a spirit-possessed voodoo priestess bite off the head of a live chicken before "the spirits left and those who had been possessed fell to the ground" concluding: "Haitians' understanding of how God is manifest in our lives is very different from that of most Christians, Jews, or Muslims, but their documented experiences certainly prove the old adage that the Lord works in mysterious ways." What colossal ignorance!
Thus, this group of 'Baptists' stands in direct disobedience to Jesus Christ, who commanded us to beware of false prophets (Matthew 7:15-17) and it stands in direct opposition to the apostles, who stood against false teachers with great boldness and conviction - e.g. Acts 13:8-12; 20:28-31; Romans 16:17-18; Galatians 1:6-9; Philippians 3:17-21; Colossians 2:8, 18-23; 1 Timothy 1:5-7, 19-20; 4:1-3; 6:20-21; 2 Timothy 1:15; 2:16-18; 3:13; 4:14; Titus 1:9-16; 2 Peter 2:1-22; 1 John 2:18-23; 4:1-3; Jude 3-16.
Figures show Rome has the most sexual offenders of all religions - and only the secular world exceeds their filth!
We should not forget how 'The Baptist World Alliance' met at the Vatican with the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity to continue their dialogue with the Roman Catholic Church (January 24, 2002), and Denton Lotz, general secretary of the Baptist World Alliance, joined hands with Pope John Paul II at the third Day of Prayer for Peace at Assisi, Italy. This ecumenical pagan prayer gathering featured some 200 religious leaders, including representatives of such "Christian" denominations as Roman Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican, Reformed, Baptist, Lutheran, Mormon, Methodist, Quaker, Pentecostal, Mennonite, as well as representatives of Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Bahai, Confucianism, Shintoism, Hinduism, Jainism, Zoroastrianism, Tenrikyo (Japan), and members of African and North American "traditional religions." Thus the Baptist World Alliance revealed irrefutable evidence of their apostasy long before the 'New Baptist Covenant' was formed and other evidence reveals that the general decline of many 'Baptists' began well over a century ago.
Ironically, leaders of the Southern Baptist Convention, which is liberal enough itself refused to become involved in the 'New Baptist Covenant' and dismissed the event as merely another chance for disgruntled moderate and liberal Baptists to express their disapproval and contempt for the 'more conservative SBC'.
A further irony is that the leaders of the 'New Baptist Covenant' made many statements regarding unity and their commitment not to criticize others, no matter what their religion or beliefs, despite their long history of heavily criticizing 'Biblical conservatives' and 'fundamentalists' - in particular, condemning 'fundamentalists' for their "judgementalism" while continuing to be judgmental and critical of them!
One of the chief heretics of this little cabal is 'Two-Faced' Tony Campolo who has declared that Jesus has called us all to build the kingdom of God today. Apart from the idea being wholly un-Scriptural, its is obvious to the Bible-believing Christian that this puts Campolo and the 'New Baptist Covenant' in bed with every believer in an End-Time Religion alongside every Papal Roman Catholic - no matter what 'cafeteria' he dines at, 'Hermans' or 'The Vatican'.
The Bible shows clearly that Lord's apostles planted autonomous congregations and they did not build denominational structures yoking the congregations together. The New Testament gives detailed instructions for the government and discipline of the assembly, but there are no instructions for the establishment of intra- or extra-church institutions. Denominational structures are man-made entities that have no Biblical authority.
Another link in this evil trail which you foolishly (from the perspective of your attempt to besmirch others and defend Papal Rome!) began from your Fox News article and led to
continues to the opinions of 'Joe Trull, editor of Christian Ethics Today'.
If you go to
and read 'Board of Directors For the Christian Ethics Today Foundation' you find - second on the list:
'Tony Campolo is a professor of Sociology at Eastern College in St. Davids, Pennsylvania, and is the founder and President of the Evangelical Association for the Promotion of Education, a collection of ministries that serve at-risk youth in urban America. The author of twenty-six books, his Ph.D. is from Temple University. He is also an ordained minister in the American Baptist Convention and serves as associate pastor of Mt. Carmel Baptist Church in West Philadelphia. He and his wife Peggy have two adult children and four grandchildren'.
So we prove the link between your own Cult of Papal Rome and this huge list of Protestant/Baptists. But still you have not found any evidence that reveals a significant number of paedophile abusers in these churches you call 'Protestant' yet, on the strength of the little evidence you supply (which did not prove your point at all!) you continue:
You write: 'In fact, Protestant "churches" have to take large insurance claims for child abuse molestation, because they expect to molest and pervert young little children. In addition, your Protestant "churches" cover-up abuse cases and shuffle around your pervert Protestant ministers. Protestant churches are so pedophilic that they even strongly avoid and protest against forming any system of protecting their vulnerable children, and for reporting pedophile Protestant ministers. The Southern Baptist Convention (largest Protestant denomination) refuses to form a list of abuse cases even while pressured by victim advocacy groups, that can be made available to the public. In fact, Protestant pedophile ministers' abuse and deviancy is never reported by the protestant "churches", but by a third party. Protestant "churches" protect, nurture, and advance child molestation, and refuse to report it and keep it secret. Protestant "churches" do nothing to prevent or curb child abuse. Since most congregations are pedophiliac. Statistically, Protestant ministers are over five times more likely to abuse a child than an employee of the Post Conciliar Protestant Sect (which is falsely called the Catholic Church). The "Evangelicals" (that is what you call your own denomination) are the worst abusers, if not, easily one of the worst of all the Protestant denominations. It is so bad that it is truly mind boggling. You must be very ignorant of the world you live in. What I will say is that you should consult the statistics and see yourself.
TCE: In keeping with your foundational leader (Revelation 12:10: 'And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night') you hurl accusations out without thinking to support them with a single fact. This is simply a long rant based on flimsy evidence which leads you to idiotically conclude: 'most congregations are pedophiliac'!
The figures we will shortly produce certainly proves that, historically, your beloved (un-Scriptural!) priesthood and its hierarchy, all the way to popes, have numbered more sexual perverts than any other religious group!
You claim: without a shred of genuine supporting evidence:
'Statistically, Protestant ministers are over five times more likely to abuse a child than an employee of the Post Conciliar Protestant Sect (which is falsely called the Catholic Church). The "Evangelicals" (that is what you call your own denomination) are the worst abusers, if not, easily one of the worst of all the Protestant denominations. It is so bad that it is truly mind boggling. You must be very ignorant of the world you live in. What I will say is that you should consult the statistics and see yourself.'
TCE: Any person of reasonable intelligence can recognise that your childish claim, particularly, that 'The "Evangelicals" (that is what you call your own denomination) are the worst abusers, if not, easily one of the worst of all the Protestant denominations. It is so bad that it is truly mind boggling' is no more than the exaggeration your hear in the playground in junior school when an angry little child is losing an argument!
Just read the bluster: 'the worst abusers, if not, easily one of the worst ... so bad that it is truly mind boggling'.
You are in need of serious counselling and help to understand basic English for not only have we never described ourselves as a 'denomination' or as 'Evangelicals' but - as the top of our Home page states:
'The Christian Expositor is a non-denominational, orthodox evangelical Christian group'
and, in your desperate attempt to besmirch us you hurl this pathetic accusation at us in an effort to make us worse than your cult. You are, presumably, incapable of researching the meaning of 'orthodox', 'evangelical' and 'non-denominational'?
And where are the 'statistics' you bluster about?
You write: The "Evangelicals" are exploding with perverts and sodomite abusers. And the crimes are truly dirty and nauseating. These sickening lusting pervert Protestant "evangelical" ministers commit degradations that most adults never even heard of. Sex abuse molesting pedophile Protestant "pastors" is really an epidemic rapidly growing in fundamentalist and "evangelical" circles. Your sect has reached the lowest of the low and the rock bottom of the barrel and resides at the bottom rung of morality. Your sect just can't wait to get hands on little children during "bible" studies, picnics, so called "Christian" youth camps, Protestant "churches", "church" outings/field trips, Protestant counseling sessions/centers, "Sunday" school, and most especially retreats and other quality time opportunities molester pedophile "evangelical" Protestant "pastor" abusers so earnestly crave, with little innocent children, especially little boys. The lust of your "evangelical" "pastors" is so fervent that sometimes they just uncontrollably forcefully impose themselves grossly in an indecent manner upon the victim and engage their deviant desires. (I also wanted to note that because your "churches" are man made, you have to take out mortgages and a lot of your "churches" struggle with mortgage payments for your false"churches" ,as a result, many are being closed down; this however, does not happen with the true Church, there is no such thing as mortgages with it because it is divine, not man made) What is so pathetic is that your "evangelical "congregations defend your pedophile Protestant abusing molester "pastors" with all the "church" funds even going so far as to put their "evangelical" "church" up as bond, and insisting on the "innocence" of their Protestant pedophile "pastors", despite the fact that the child molester "evangelical" "pastor" abused a great amount of kids in the congregation; and this is another reason why new denominations breakup and form. After abusing many kids the pedophile child molester abuser Protestant "pastor" starts insulting and scolding them and pathetically quoting "bible" verses when their parents are angry, and also during court. Others pathetically plead for mercy while in court. And the congregations begin to shun the children and their families when they report and complain of molestations by their pedophile Protestant "pastors."And the congregants begin to jeer the children and their families, because they worship their pedophile Protestant child molesting "pastors."Their loyal angry congregations pack the courtrooms during trial making angry outbursts against the victims, and they are told by the court to stop the outrageous outbursts. Each of the congregant pedophile supporters stick to their child molester pedophile "pastors" and shake his hand saying they will stick by him.
TCE: Again, all you have done is list the many offences proven to have been committed by the 'priests' of Papal Rome and try to direct them at the 'Protestants' you hate so much. While we have a long list of internet links to the offences committed by the paedophiles of Papal Rome what do you have - the occasional evidence against a few 'Protestant' perverts:
'A case in point is the Protestant "Evangelical" minister Eddie Long, one of the most politically connected protestant mega-"pastors" who engaged in sodomy and "gay" acts with teens. This raging pedophile and flaming homo protestant minister and hypocrite strongly preached against "gay" people - when he himself is a flaming homo! Such hypocrisy, but he is only one tip of an enormous Protestant iceberg.
We have never, ever, claimed that sex perverts and deceivers are only found in Papal Rome. That would clearly be foolish since deceivers infiltrate all walks of life and, as we know from the ministry of Judas, will even find their way into the Presence of the Most Holy! It is how we deal with them that is important and your re-naming your perverts as members of 'the Post Conciliar Protestant Sect' to try and claim the 'Papal Rome' you believe in is utterly perfect simply will not wash.
Since you seem to believe that 'The Huffington Post' is a credible source for you to use to attack others we introduce this page as 'evidence':
Under the title - 'Pope Benedict Defrocked 400 Priests For Child Sex Abuse In Just 2 Years, Reveal Documents' we read this report [from 01/17/2014 02:18 pm ET | Updated Jan 25, 2014 - edited with coloured high-lights]:
'VATICAN CITY (AP) -- A document obtained by The Associated Press on Friday shows Pope Benedict XVI defrocked nearly 400 priests over just two years for sexually molesting children.
The statistics for 2011 and 2012 show a dramatic increase over the 171 priests removed in 2008 and 2009, when the Vatican first provided details on the number of priests who have been defrocked. Prior to that, it had only publicly revealed the number of alleged cases of sexual abuse it had received and the number of trials it had authorized.
While it's not clear why the numbers spiked in 2011, it could be because 2010 saw a new explosion in the number of cases reported in the media in Europe and beyond.
The document was prepared from data the Vatican had been collecting and was compiled to help the Holy See defend itself before a U.N. committee this week in Geneva.
Archbishop Silvano Tomasi, the Vatican's U.N. ambassador in Geneva, referred to just one of the statistics in the course of eight hours of oftentimes pointed criticism and questioning from the U.N. human rights committee.
The statistics were compiled from the Vatican's own annual reports about the activities of its various offices, including the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which handles sex abuse cases. Although public, the annual reports are not readily available or sold outside Rome and are usually found in Vatican offices or Catholic university libraries.
An AP review of the reference books shows a remarkable evolution in the Holy See's in-house procedures to discipline pedophiles since 2001, when the Vatican ordered bishops to send cases of all credibly accused priests to Rome for review.
Then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger took action after determining that bishops around the world weren't following church law to put accused clerics on trial in church tribunals. Bishops routinely moved problem priests from parish to parish rather than subject them to canonical trials - or turn them into police. [TCE: 'turn them into police' means 'hand them over to police forces'!]
For centuries, the church has had its own in-house procedures to deal with priests who sexually abuse children. One of the chief accusations from victims is that bishops put the church's own procedures ahead of civil law enforcement by often suggesting victims keep accusations quiet while they are dealt with internally.
The maximum penalty for a priest convicted by a church tribunal is essentially losing his job: being defrocked, or removed from the clerical state. There are no jail terms and nothing to prevent an offender from raping again.
According to the 2001 norms Ratzinger pushed through and subsequent updates, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith reviews each case sent to Rome and then instructs bishops how to proceed, either by launching an administrative process against the priest if the evidence is overwhelming or a church trial. At every step of the way the priest is allowed to defend himself.
The Congregation started reporting numbers only in 2005, which is where Tomasi's spreadsheet starts off. U.N. officials said Friday that the committee has not received the document.
In 2005, the Congregation authorized bishops to launch church trials against 21 accused clerics, and reported that its appeals court had handled two cases. It didn't say what the verdicts were, according to the annual reports cited by the spreadsheet.
In 2006, the number of canonical trials authorized doubled to 43 and eight appeals cases were heard. And for the first time, the Congregation revealed publicly the number of cases reported to it: 362, though that figure includes a handful of non-abuse related canonical crimes.
A similar number of cases were reported in 2007 -- 365 -- but again the Congregation didn't specify how many were abuse-related. Vatican officials, however, have said that it received between 300-400 cases a year in these years following the 2002 explosion of U.S. sex abuse cases in the U.S. In 2007, 23 cases were sent to dioceses for trial.
By 2008, the tone of the Vatican's entry had changed. Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI, traveled to the scandal-hit United States that year and is quoted in the annual report as telling reporters en route that he was "mortified" by the scale of abuse and simply couldn't comprehend "how priests could fail in such a way."
That year's entry was also notable for another reason: For the first time, an official Vatican document made clear that nothing in the church process precluded victims from reporting abuse to police.
There was also another first in 2008, a critical year as abuse lawsuits in the U.S. naming the Holy See as a defendant were heating up: For the first time, the Vatican revealed the number of priests who had been defrocked: 68. Some 191 new cases were reported.
A year later, the number of defrocked priests rose to 103, while some 223 new cases were received, the vast majority of them abuse-related.
The year 2010 was another milestone in the sex abuse saga, with the explosion of thousands of cases reported in the media across Europe and beyond. Some 527 cases were reported to the Congregation. No figures were given that year for the number of defrocked priests, rather the Congregation described new church laws put in place to more easily and quickly remove them.
By 2011, with the new streamlined laws in place, the number of defrocked priests rose dramatically: 260 priests were removed in one year only, while 404 new cases of child abuse were reported. In addition to those defrocked, another 419 priests had lesser penalties imposed on them for abuse-related crimes.
In 2012, the last year for which statistics are available, the number of de-frockings dropped to 124, with another 418 new cases reported.
So we see that 'The Huffington Post' reports that the Papal Roman Catholic Church are guilty of all the things you accuse 'Protestants' of committing! Later, we will see how other figures stack up...........
You write: You are so driven by bigotry that you cannot see the filth in your false religion, and the fact that of all areas of society, of all the false religions, the Post Conciliar Protestant Sect's employees are statistically better off, than any other sect, because of the few vestiges they stole and retained from the Church for their false religion. Their so called "abuse" statistics compared to those of other Protestants, the Moslems, the Jews, the Hare Krishnas, the Hindus, the Buddhists etc are as a speck and almost as nothing.
TCE: Laughingly, you now compose a sentence that describes your own antics to a tee: 'You are so driven by bigotry that you cannot see the filth in your false religion'.
You deceive yourself into thinking you can claim 'the Church of Rome' has always existed unchanged - while 'Protestants' form unlimited denominations - yet has now formed two (at least!) groups, one with the supposed 'few vestiges they stole and retained from the Church for their false religion' and that this makes 'Their so called "abuse" statistics compared to those of other Protestants, the Moslems, the Jews, the Hare Krishnas, the Hindus, the Buddhists etc ... as a speck and almost as nothing.'
Yet, after supplying a link to an article by the renowned 'religion haters' - 'The Huffington Post' - we find they even provide links to the Papal Roman Catholic perverts you attempt to defend, as well as giving statistics that utterly defy your claims. And yet you have the gall to hurl this accusation at us: 'You are so driven by bigotry that you cannot see the filth in your false religion ...'.
No person with their faculties in working order is going to believe much, if any, of what you have written to us because of the way you clearly invent and twist facts and statistics and simply refuse to accept what they reveal about the evil cult of Papal Rome.
(Continued on page 357)